Question

[Rene]

Hi - I'm new here, and would like to apologize if this is going to be a long post..
Just a little intro to explain my situation..My husband is potentially bi-polar (diagnosed with clinical depression 4 years ago, off on dissability until this May, and now back to work). He is currently displaying every book sign of bi-polar mania, and these symptoms have been escalating within a course of 3 months (extremely good mood interlaced with extreme irritability, doesn't sleep much, can't sit still, has hundreds of plans and acts on each one of them, extreme spending...) Unfortunately - I haven't processed and connected all the dots until recently (and he is now on his vacation trip with our daugther overseas). Just recently while he was on his trip - I found out he took another line of credit and applied for a couple of new credit cards, which are all on his name alone.
Finally - I get to the question(s)
1. What can I do to get him to the doctors ASAP after his return? He is definitely unwilling to go and will have to be either convinced (I suspect this will not work) or taken by force (I really don't want to call the police on him!) - anybody has any other creative ideas on what to do?
2. How do people protect their finances from manic bi-polar person, stories? Maybe some of the people suffering from bi-polar could chime in on what their loved ones did to prevent them from going deep into debt?
3. How do I talk to him so he understands I care about him (I have been along his side during the 4 years he was depressed, but now he is forgetting this and just seems like he hates my guts (

Thanks!

[AJ]

Welcome to the forums Rene. Make a post as long as you like. We have no length restrictions. You'll find the people on this forum friendly and supportive. I only know what it's like to be the one who's sick. I'll let someone else jump in to answer your questions.

[Rene]

Thanks AJ, any advice is welcome as currently I feel very lost in the whole situation

[paul m]

Hello Rene and welcome. Don't worry about the length of your post. My answer will be even longer. With an illness as complex as bipolar there are few short cuts, making for long posts sometimes.

None of what follows is a criticism. In fact I may not even be right. What follows is simply my experiences as someone with bipolar and as someone who has a loved one with bipolar. My experiences may be different than yours.

If he was getting a doctor to prescribe antidepressants when he was depressed you can sit down with that doctor or write a letter to the doctor describing your spouses behaviour.

The doctor cannot discuss your spouses case with you, but there is nothing to stop the doctor from listening to your side of the story. The doctor may have a better chance of confronting him. Plus, for some people with bipolar, some antidepressants can really fuel the fire, changing them from depressed to manic and/or causing them to rapid cycle.

In Ontario you could go to a Justice of the Peace and get a "form one" sworn out. The police would then drag him to a doctor to have him examined. However unless someone is really manic, to the point of being psychotic, it's almost impossible for the doctor to tell if he has a problem as legally defined under the law. More than likely your spouse would say " I'm not crazy, but she is" and be released right away after a short preliminary examine. Unless he is involuntarily taken to the hospital for some other reason there is no way that he can be forced to be examined.

The only way that you may get through to him is to confront him when he is not hypomanic or manic. When ever I was manic I never listened to anyone. Unfortunately when times are good it's hard for a couple to sit down and discuss bad things. It's easier to hope that things will keep going well.

How do you protect your finances? That can be a real problem. You can do some of the following, but there is no guarantee that they will work. Remove his name from any joint accounts, charge cards etc. Notify the credit bureaus (there are two in Cda) that you will not be responsible for his debts and notify any banks that you jointly deal with of the same thing.

The following two articles deal with how to obtain a credit report and how to freeze credit. The one is a USA report so I'm not certain that the same laws apply here, but there is some good info in it anyways. Be forewarned, that freezing his credit may also freeze yours. However that is better that ending up owing half of his debt in the event of a separation (everything is 50-50 in Ontario, both debt and assets). http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/how-to...port-1.1185975 and http://www.creditcards.com/credit-ca...pouse-1294.php

You asked: "How do I talk to him so he understands I care about him?" That can be difficult, especially when he is in a manic stage. Being manic can give a person a severe case of the ME's . That is they may only think of themselves. That doesn't mean that they don't love you. In fact, when he comes down off of his manic episode he may feel so guilty about his behaviour that he may immediately become deeply depressed.

I haven't done really harmfully things (spending sprees, lying etc) to my spouse in years, but I still have nightmares over all of the rotten things that I did while manic.

Why do we do these rotten things to our loved ones and why do we not listen? Well that's why it's called a mental illness. There's something wrong and we don't process the information correctly.

The MDAO has a really good guide about helping someone with a mood disorder. It doesn't offer any magic cures, just explains some of the happenings. http://www.mooddisorders.ca/guide/gu...-mood-disorder

In closing let me say that there had to be a reason why you were attracted to him in the first place. I'm not asking what that reason(s) was, but I will ask you to remember that most of us with bipolar are good people with a really bad illness, not a bad person with really good excuses. Not all marriages survive a major illness, mental or physical, but some do. Last night my spouse and I celebrated our 38th wedding anniversary and tonight we went out with a couple (one who has bipolar) who are closing in on 50 yrs of marriage.

Both them and us have been through some really tough times due to bipolar. But then we also have been through some tough times for other reasons too(although not as tough as the bipolar problems).

Please feel free to ask more questions. Good Luck and Take Care. paul m

[Rene]

Thanks so much Paul - I can't even begin to describe how much your reply helped! I really appreciate you taking the time to reply in detail. Since I realized he might be sick I read pretty much everything out there on bipolar and have gotten even more scared by the severity of the disease to the point that I now see only the dark side of the situation. I really don't know if I'm going to be able to stay with him in the long run, our one kid is still very young and I'm not sure if I'm going to have the energy to deal with his condition as well. I am already pretty exhausted taking over everything during the 4 years he was depressed. I love him but the prolonged time he is not the person I knew is really taking it's toll. I feel trapped. And sad. And lonely as I always shared all my problems with him and now he has become my biggest problem
Sorry for venting...

[paul m]

Hello Rene. Thx for the Thx. Once again I can appreciate your suffering and what I'm about to say is not a criticism in anyway. Nor is it really advice, just parts of my own journey.

My wife didn't know how our marriage was going to survive either. We did separate several times. An on going argument that we had for a while was who was suffering the most.

My wife had two young children to look after while I had us teetering on the brink of homelessness and bankruptcy. Plus she was living with a man who sometimes was much different then the one who she had married.

Or me. I was living with a different guy than who I thought I was or had always been. I was suffering every bit as much pain as she as I watched all that I had hoped and dreamed of go down the tubes because of my sometimes irrational decisions and behaviours. Decisions and behaviours that I didn't understand and couldn't seem to control.

I don't know who suffered the most. All I know is that we both still have nightmares and fears about those times(or ever returning to them), many years later.

I know that you are suffering a lot, but I can guarantee that at points your spouse is suffering every bit as much. A mental illness is a terrible thing for all concerned.

I also know that my wife finally had to leave me and than lay down some pretty heavy conditions for her return in order for me to do everything possible to get the illness under control. Fortunately she picked a time when I was relatively sane and not manic. I simply would not have listened if I had been manic, if I had been too depressed I couldn't have done anything.

Of course that's the simplified version, the one were we live happily ever after LOL. The reality took much longer and was a real fight to survive for both of us. Our relationship still requires work that is sometimes a burden for us both because of past ghosts. However neither of us regret the decision to stay together.

In fact there have been some major benefits to staying together for us both, but that is another series of stories, some of which I can't discuss on here.

Once again, please try and find some help for yourself. I don't mean that critically. You are under enormous stress and pressures. You need an outlet as well, whether that is posting on here and/or seeking professional help. Family, friends and a lot of therapist etc are well meaning, but some don't know beans about a mental illness and the devastating effect that it can have on all concerned. One of the many mistakes we made as a couple is that we didn't seek out the proper help for my spouse at the time or shortly thereafter. She got some well meaning, but really stupid advice from some good people. Take Care. paul m

[Rene]

Thanks again Paul for sharing bits of your story with me.
I am dreading this decision but I do think I am probably going to have to do something drastic to make my husband understand he needs help.
And - you are completely right - I definitely will need help for myself. Unfortunately - firstly I just have to deal with some more pressing issues: getting him to accept help as well as protecting my finances.
On to the finances part - I believe you suggested freezing a credit - I did read up on the link you attached and read up some more on the Internet. It appears we can't freeze credit here in Canada, the only thing we can do is place a fraud alerts on our account with credit bureau, but I'm not even sure I can do this on his name so he can probably go and apply for as many credit cards as he wants now that he's manic. Somebody else suggested I sever the joint title on our house to prevent him from getting a house-secured line of credit. But for that - I will need a lawyer, and since my husband made sure to drain our finances - I can't afford one.
I did what I could on my side and removed his name from some of the joint credit cards I can control, I opened a separate bank account and transferred all the funds to the new account, I reduced our joint line of credit so he can't withdraw monstrous sums. But, that will still be not good enough if he doesn't come off the mania soon enough.

[Christina]

Hi Rene,

Welcome to the forums!

You are dealing with so much - your husband who seems to be very ill, your own well-being in coping with him and the effects of his illness, and also taking care of your home and young child. As Paul mentioned, please find help for yourself to deal with all this. Some counsellors work on a sliding scale based on what your income is. You need an outlet to get support and encouragement.

There are some lawyers that provide free telephone counselling for 20 min or so. Please look into legal aid as well as you might be eligible for free legal assistance.

Is your/his family doctor or pdoc aware of how severe his condition has become?

Hang in there and be strong.

[Rene]

Hi Christina - thank you so much for your input!
I did write a letter to my husband's pdoc and he acknowledged receiving it. His advice is to take my husband to an emergency ASAP. Well..not that easy as you can imagine when someone doesn't think anything is wrong with them.
I know I will probably crash when some kind of resolution happens (either he ends up in a hospital or a jail), but there is simply nothing I can do to prevent this from happening as I have to try and protect our finances and that is an all consuming job for me right now. Just looking for the information, contacting lawyers, talking to the people in financial institutions and basically catching at straws. I know it's probably not smart of me to be running on empty for so long (emotionally and physically) - but I could simply not forgive myself if I allowed his mania to destroy everything we worked for so hard in 20 years of our marriage. I owe it to myself, my kids and him (the HIM I knew before this sickness).
I do have counselling covered to a certain extent by my insurance through work, so I might take advantage of that.
My next step is contacting a family lawyer as pretty much everything points to me having to do that othervise - this whole thing might end up costing me much more than lawyer's fees.

Thanks again for everybody's input - you really made a difference and helped me with your stories and support!

[paul m]

Hello Rene. I think the following is what Christina is suggesting and it's a very good suggestion. The law society runs a referral service, They will provide you with a lawyer in your area who will provide you with a free consultation. To quote from their website:
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When you call the LSRS, we will provide you with the name of a lawyer or licensed paralegal who will provide a free consultation of up to 30 minutes to help you determine your rights and options. "

Is there a cost to the service?

No. The phone call, the referral process, and your initial consultation of up to 30 minutes are all free. However, the consultation is meant to help you determine your rights and options. You should not expect a lawyer or paralegal to do any free work during this time — that is not the purpose of the LSRS. However, you could certainly ask during the consultation what it might cost to have your legal work done.
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You can find out more at http://www.lsuc.on.ca/faq.aspx?id=2147486372 or by calling 1-800-268-8326

Sometimes you get a good referral, sometimes a dud, but it is free.

Earlier you mentioned that someone had suggested that you take his name off of the joint title. That's not possible without his permission or a court order and even then you would have to convince a judge that he had no right to 1/2 of the house. However he cannot get a line of credit against the house unless you both sign the papers either (Assuming that the house is in joint names). Take Care. paul m