feeling lonely and lost

[paul m]

Hello Mon. I don't want to discourage you, but 8 days is not a long hospital stay. My son was in once for 13 wks(although that was extreme). Hasn't been back in since though. Far better to take extra time now, then later. As far as pdocs not being in, if he is as off the wall as you say, then they know there is nothing you can do but wait. If he shows signs of coming down, the nurses will summon a pdoc in a hurry

Unfortuantely each med they try may take a while to see whether it works or not. They could give him a large does of anti-psychotic which would bring him down in a hurry, but might leave him unable to function. Best to bring him down gradually and then work out a new drug regime.

In regards to extreme paranoia(thinking his boss is going to try and kill him) that can be a symptom of bipolar. My son almost faced charges because he took to calling the cops on his neighbor for essentially the same thing.

In regards to his comments about divorce etc. I know it's hard, but try not to take it to heart. When I was really manic I thought I was always right and nothing was wrong with me. I would lie to prove those points

I know it's tough and frustrating, but keep posting and keep venting. Hopefully you will be able to put it all behind you soon. Take Care. paul m

[mon]

Thanks for the support... as you said the wait is paying off.

I went to the hospital with mixed feelings yesterday. I also brought a friend of ours to visit for the first time...and a surprise. My hubby was quite ok. We had a nice cinversation at first and a nice fight about the car he bought later. After the friend left, my husband ended up calling the dealership to get the car back on the sale floor. And as of yesterday he is allowed 15 min passes (which is barely enough to ride the lift to the ground floor and back ) So there is light in the tunnel after all.

Anyhow, if anyone has any more tips on what to ask the doc when I meet him on Monday or the social worker or how to work with my husband after he gets out (cause now I believe he will) I will appreciate all your help.

[AJ]

Hi Mon,

I'm glad things are getting better for husband, and you. Sounds like you're beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Write the questions you have before the meeting. I would include questions such as:

What is his drug regimen? What side effects and issues may occur with the drugs they have put him on. Are there any blood tests he'll need done and for checking what? Drug levels? Affect on kidneys, liver etc

Will arrangements be made for him to see a P.doc and social worker after he is discharged. Cost of medication and if needed, assistance with that. (Some meds are outrageously expensive, especially antipsychotics).

If he's been working, will they fill out the paperwork required for disability coverage, if he has it. A boss may also require a note from the P.doc about his need for time off.

Recommended reading and available support (group etc) for you in all this.

Options with finances in-terms of his hypomanic/manic spending. Perhaps legal advice in this area.

If and when he should be driving.

Plan of action if he is non compliant with meds or P.doc appointments etc.

A list of resources in your area in the event of a crisis. (We have a mobile response unit here.)

Okay I'll stop with the list. Others can add to it.

[mon]

AJ thanks for the tips. I assume such a list would be useful to anyone dealing with this for the first time like me.

I have thought of some of those issues already - job and sick leave has been covered, I am aware of the mobile response unit in my area (but learnt about it only after it was too late to call them anyway). But will definitely take all of this up with his doc

Thanks again and waiting for more ... :-D

[Woody]

AJ has done a good job at giving you a list of thing to ask about.

If you know what meds he is taking now, do some research beforehand.

Do not be scared to ask question. There are no stupid questions ... just stupid answers!

From talking with my pears at the support group, the one things that most complain about is follow threw/follow up after discharge.

[paul m]

Hello Mon. In Ontario and severval other provinces we have what are called Coummunity Treatment Orders. (CTO's) They are an agreement between the doctor and the patient for his release from the hospital(or not being put in the first place).

The patient may have to agree, not to drink, not to gamble, attend a group support meeting and to meet with a social worker on a set schedule or take a CBT course.(as an example)

If the patient does not keep the agreement the doc may involuntarily readmitt him. It's worth asking the doc about.

You will also want to find out where the nearest out patients location is and see what services they offer. They may offer day or night courses on CBT, anger management and other items.

How to get hold of shrink between appts for near-emergencies. Take Care. paul m

[mon]

2 steps forward, 1 step back

I have not been here for a week because things started picking up and there was hope agin. But... seems we are back to where we were almost two weeks ago. My husband went out on passes from the hospital over the last few days and ended up spending quite a lot of money again (no new cars to my knowledge). Ended up having another manic episode. Now he has his passes suspended, as well as phone calls.

I have a question though... I met the doctor today and she said something that surprised me. My husband is certified, and was taken to the hospital involuntarily. However the doctor said that she will have to let him leave the hospital should he decide he wants to get out. Apparently she feels she has no legal right to deny him phone calls, keep him in the hospital against his will or take away his wallet. Funny thing is, the nurses do keep him away from the phone, he had no access to his wallet for a while and of course no one is letting him out of the hospital because he say so. So why is the doctor saying one thing and the hospital doing another? Or maybe I am missing something?

And thank you again for all the question suggestions, they defitinely were useful, thought the docs answers not so much (apaprently she's from Quebec and new in this area so has no idea about things aside from the medical thing - although I am also not sure about the medical stuff. She let my husband have 5-hour passes on the weekend, though he was already clearly displaying signs of mania on Friday)

[paul m]

Hello Mon. I am only guessing or using my own past behaviour to answer here. None of what I say is intended as a criticism of you or the system. Nor am I agreeing with what the docs are doing. I am just saying what happens sometimes.

When I was manic I could lie with the staightest face imaginable. Worse, when manic my brain shifts into high speed and I can probably come up with the lies before the doc even knows what there going to ask. Sometimes the only way to tell if somebody is still manic is to let them out and see how they behave.

The doc probably figures that you have or perhaps should have taken all steps necessary to prevent your husband from having access to money. Whether that be close bank accts or cancel credit cards or other steps.

In Ontario it is common to be taken to the hospital as an involuntary patient. However at the end of various time limits the patient must either become a voluntary patient or new rules kick in. If a patient is held involuntarily longer than 2 wks for example (in Ontario) they are supposed to see a rights advocate and that advocate is supposed to tell them that the are entitled to a lawyer who will advise them of their right to go before a consent and capacity board. If they lose that they are entitled to appeal to the courts. This does not always happen because in Ontario hospitals are very good at not telling the patients that they are listed as voluntary.

Because it can happen hospitals are very reluctant to keep someone who might cost them a lot of extra time and effort. The key phrase in Ontario is whether or not the patient is an immediate harm to himself or others. Those patients they must keep. Unfortunately docs often don't consider the fact that I might end up on the street in two wks when my wife kicks me out an immediate harm.

Because the laws are so complex and vary so much province to province and your husband is not getting better quickly, I would suggest that you talk to a lawyer first in the mental health act where you live. The lawyer may be a bit expensive, but probably not as much as a porsche. Take Care. paul m

[Woody]

Just playing the devil's advocate for a min here, could have letting him out for a few hours been a way of keeping him from wanting to leave all together?

Like Paul said, you might need to consult a lawyer. The hospital staff should be able to give you a list of name they deal with on a regular basis. But you might want to be ready, some of the options might not be very palatable

[mon]

paul m - last week I got a letter from the hospital informing me that he has been admitted as an involunary patient and can be held there as such for a month. After that he must be discharged or his situation will be reviewed and might be readmitted for a month. So here in BC it is longer. That is why I do not understand why the doc said she cannot keep him there - it has only been two weeks so far and he is still manic.

Anyway he seems to be happy in the hospital - especially that he's not working and he's getting paid.

To be honest, I have not seen him since yesterday morning. During the meeting with his doc, at which I was present, he kept insisting that we are not happy together and he wants an immediate separation and divorce. I might have mentioned before that he thinks it explains his current mental state (instead of admiting he is manic in front on the doc) and sticks to it - even though he knows it is not true and has told me that this is the story only for the doctors and his boss.
Anyhow, yesterday he was expecially nasty about it, insisting even that he doesn't want me to visit him anymore - and so I decided to stay away for a few days. When I called the nurse today for an update, she told me he was waiting for me. I have asked her to remind him his words from yesterday.

I feel very angry and I know I am getting a bit vindictive, but I find the divorce bit pushed so often down my throad, hard to swollow.

And I will look into the lawyer thing definitely thank you for that suggestion.

As for the porsche - well the dealer was great, we got all the money back. Should any of you fancy a new speeder, I can recommend this dealer ;-)

[paul m]

Hello Mon. Each province has it's own mental health act. Some are similiar some are not. However I have included a couple of websites for you to look at. http://www.bclaws.ca/Recon/document/....xml#section22 is the BC Mental Health Act and http://www.cba.org/BC/public_media/health/425.aspx which is from the BC bar association. Both may be able to help you figure out the 14 day and other periods permited by law.

I know it's hard, but try not to take what a mental patient has to say to heart. They would not be in lock down if they were in control of their brain. I could go on forever about how I used to rationaize my poor behaviours as somebodies else fault.

It certainly wasn't fair to the people I abused (mentaly not physically) as they had nothing wrong. But it was the illnesses fault and not mine as I had no control over it. That did not make my wife feel any better though and I now understand that. Things that happened during those times come back to haunt our marriage every once in a while as the wife and I are both decent humans and this illness can make both sides appear less than humane. Take Care. paul m

[Woody]

One of the symptoms with BP is irritability and that irritability can manifest itself in different ways. I know someone, and when they get hyper-manic, all they want to do is trash talk there union and how they are going to leave because there life is going to be so much better than having to stay where they are. It got as fare as trial seperations and diving up the goods. Once they go back down they go back to being lovie-dovie. It cost them serious money in lawyer fees, but they now recognize the pastern and they watch for it as it is a major indicator that things are going off track.

I am not trying to make excuses for your husband. What he is saying IS hurtful and his being manic does not excuse it. For yourself, you have done the right thing by setting boundaries and saying that unless you behave, I am not going to visit. It is good that you are participating and advocating for your husband, but it is also a good thing that you are looking after your well being too.

[paul m]

As sort of a post script to what I said, Woody jogged my memory. I can remember going to group and always talking bad about my wife and the problems she was causing me. I did it for about 4 mths.Most of them knew my wife and tried to convince me other wise to no avail. I loved her then, I love her now, I have no idea why I did that. We were having a rough time but she wasn't the cause of my problems, but that's how I say it. Take Care. paul m

[mon]

Woody and paul m - thnak you so much for all your support. It is very very helpful to hear it from people who have been through it. It helped me a lot to understand my husband and to pay less attention to what he says and does.

I have another question: has anyone noticed that their moods depend on barometric preasure? My husband has been studying this for a while. I was sceptic until I really looked into it and it seems to be true - whenever the pressure goes up has a lot of energy, and when it goes down he is depressed. Now, to no surprise the pressure was very high last weekend - and he sure was manic. Now the pressure is low and he seems to be fairly stable.
I am curious if anyone has also noticed that.

One again thank you for all your support

have a good night

[paul m]

Hello Mon. Your welcome. Not barometric pressure(but then I don't own a barometer, but I'm pretty sure the various phases of the moon may cause behaviour that is a little different in me sometimes. Take Care. paul m