looking for advice on how to best support my spouse

[mrae]

Hi jennisk! Thanks for sharing your story with me - you know, I've often wondered about bipolar type II, the symptoms I've read online and in books seem all too familiar! Only his swings seem to be more frequent than the "textbook" examples I've read. He constantly talks like the meds aren't doing anything - although to me they definitely are. But maybe it's like you said...right now it might just be lifting the haze and an increase could bring him to a feeling of "normal". But at least he's still taking them! I'm not sure when his next doc appt is...he tends to not tell me about them until after he's gone...part of his need to withdraw, I guess. But maybe I should see if I could speak to his doc...I should also ask if he'd be OK with me coming along to his next appt. But I sometimes fear his response...he can be pretty stubborn and negative when he wants to be! I'm still working on figuring out how hard I can push before he really digs his heels in...

[Atlantis]

I've had many friends ask me how it is that I manage going through these up and downs...why I haven't just up and left

If I were you, I would ask your friends would they leave their spouse if their spouse had cancer, heart disease, multiple sclerosis, diabetes...

For some a light bulb may go on, and of course they would answer no.
A few may answer yes, and that is o.k., not everyone can watch a loved one suffer.

I would like my friends to try and understand that a "Mental Illness" is just that, an "illness/disease" caused by an imbalance of neurotransmitters in the brain and that they should not discriminate between a mental illness and any other type of illness.

[paul m]

Hello Mrae. In regards to mood swings. While some people do meet the classic symptoms of depression or bipolar, many more do not. I will attempt to explain a little about mood swings, but it is very hard within the limits of this forum, so if you don't understand something please ask

Usually when bipolar or depression occurs there are some sort of mood swing. To take straight depression: That mood swing may occur over a very long time where the person starts out in a normal state of mind and slowly sinks deeper and deeper into depression. It can also occur in some individuals in an eye blink. That is they go from a normal mood to a very depressed mood in minutes. They can also go from deeply depressed to normal in a short time.

The term rapid cycling is more often used with bipolar and only refers to 4 or more mood changes a year, I can have that many in a day. Rapid mood changes can also occur to those who have unipolar depression.

Mixed states is another occurrence that happens with both depression and bipolar. Mixed states often is used wrongly, but all that it means is that a person has symptoms from two different mood types.

What frequently happens to me and others is that as I go from from one mood to another, I exhibit symptoms of two moods. As an example. I can have the classic symptoms of depression of being extremely lethargic and tired, yet be cheerful and not feeling sad at the same time. Or I can feel downcast and miserable and yet full of energy. Normally those types of mixed symptoms don't show up in a classicly depressed person. These mixed symptoms are extremely difficult to deal with for me and for those around me. I often become agitated and easily angered during these times.

As a final example, it's awful hard to argue or do anything when one is lying on the coach feeling like sh*t and just wanting the misery to go away. But throw in a little energy to go with my bad mood and I can light up the sky with fireworks as well as anyone. That is a classic mixed state for me. Take Care. paul m

[mrae]

My thoughts exactly Karen! Thank you!

[mrae]

Thanks for describing your situation to me paul m - the textbook answers don't always seem appropriate. Every person is different and every illness is different, making it hard to find answers sometimes (not that there are set "answers" to find, but in my desperation I keep searching for them!)

[paul m]

Hello Mrae. I agree the answers are difficult to find, but most often the answers are there and can be found eventually. Unlike some illnesses, we can recover enough to live enjoyable lives. Not always the life that we had planned or the activities that we used to find enjoyable nor is it easy. But life can be enjoyable again and that is what counts.

Keep searching and asking questions. Take Care. paul m

[mrae]

paul m, your post fills me with a great sense of hope. Thank you for your words.

[mrae]

Hi everyone - I'm back with yet another question! Does anyone have any thoughts or advice on this?

We've been up and down since I last posted...but lately he's back in the downswing. He's back to thinking he needs to move out to gain "perspective" - my prediction to this type of activity is that he would find himself alone and lonely and come back home after a little while away, thinking that he's all better because he made a "decision" to come home...but give it a few months, a year, however long, and he'd be right back to where he is now...questioning everything. In his mind our relationship is still the biggest issue, yet there is SO much more going on with him...his lack of feelings for me through this time is just a small part of what he is dealing with. Taking me out of the equation for a while will not benefit him over the long haul.

I just don't know how to talk to him about this - in a way that doesn't make it seem like I'm just trying to hang on to him. In his mind this is the perfect idea, but he can't see that leaving me with all the responsibilities of our home isn't fair to me...I feel like I don't know how to approach this discussion. How to help him see "reality"...even though I know I can't change his perception of "his" reality. I don't want to push him away, but I also am struggling with how to stay encouraging when he just wants to run away...I wish he was more open to seeing a therapist. I truly believe that this is a valuable step for his treatment, but he stubbornly digs his heels in. How far can I push him? Can I just make and appointment for him and hope he'll go?

Argh! I'm feeling so frustrated and confused again! He still acts as if he can fix himself, but that's just not the case!

[jennisk]

Hi mrae. You could try making an appointment and hoping, but if he is fixated on your relationship, what about couples counselling? Would he go for that? It might seem to him that you were validating his concerns. Another option is to get counselling for yourself. You might learn some new ways of talking to him, and how to take care of yourself. Admitting that I couldn't "fix myself" felt like a failure for me at first. He is a man, that fear of failure is even stronger! (Sorry guys, but I think it is true.) Try spinning the idea of counselling as being a victory, as being the strong person's step to making life better. Remind him that you need him. Not just that it isn't fair to leave you with the responsiblities. If he isn't being realistic, then maybe the way to communicate to him is through his ego?? Good luck!

[mrae]

Hi jennisk - thanks for your advice. I've been thinking about bringing up the idea of couples counselling...or even just counselling for me. It's important for me to focus on myself too, and even though my friends keep reminding me of that, its still hard to do when everything feels so up in the air. I think seeing a cousellor on my own might help me with my own feelings as well as help me to help him better. I agree that his "uber male ego" gets in the way of him hearing and understanding when we talk about how important it is to talk things out. He wants to talk to me and his mom only - not to a stranger...you'd think that talking to a stranger would be easier, but I guess it's hard to admit failure to someone who hasn't yet formed an opinion of you? He claims he doesn't care what people think of him, but I think that's not really true...it's easier to be weak in front of those who already know your weaknesses, I guess!

[paul m]

Hello Mrae. Hoping that a chronic reoccuring mental illness will get better on it's own is like hoping that someone's lung cancer is suddenly going to go into remission without treatment. It's possible, but not likely.

In regards to moving out. One of the problems with a mental illness is that it colours our thinking. I know that at times I thought that my wife was the problem and if I moved out then she would come to here senses and realize that I was right about everything. Just one of the million or so times my illness caused me to think wrongly. If his thoughts are off, you may not be able to convince him that he is wrong. Sometimes we have to wait till times are better to do that.

Marriage or living together is a partnership, while temporary separations can be good, separating to gain perspective is not a good solution for either party. But I agree with Jennisk that marriage counseling may help, but good marriage counselors who understand mental illness are pretty rare. But worth looking for.

My guess is that he prefers to talk to you and Mom about his problems because you go easier on him than a good counselor would. I'm not proud of the fact, but when I was really ill I could lie to my wife or Mom without blinking. It was much harder telling the same fibs to my shrink.

If he does insist on moving out to gain perspective, I would also advise him that part of that perspective is not having *** with you or anyone else while he thinks things over. Nor any laundry privileges, occasional meals and the bills all still have to be paid on time nor can he stay at Mom's or anyone else's place where he can just sit back and relax while you do all of the worrying. Set a firm time line. If it's three mths, then it's three mths Make it clear that this is a one time thing and if it doesn't work than he has to agree to gets proper treatment in the future.

I am sorry that I can't offer you any great solutions, but sometimes you just have to try hard and hope for the best. Take Care. paul m

[mrae]

Hi paul m,

Thanks for your advice. I agree with the firm rules regarding his moving out - if it would officially come to that. He hasn't brought the subject up to me directly, he's just left a couple of websites open of apartment listings - not sure if he's hoping I'll bring it up or if it was an honest mistake on his part! I've thought about what my response would be if he started talking about moving again. My gut reaction is to tell him that I would accept his moving out for a short time ONLY if he was getting help from a therapist at the same time. Otherwise I'm worried that he'll just get lonely and miss me after a while and move back thinking everything is fixed, but then we'll go through the same thing again next winter, or the winter after that. We went through a bit of this (a couple of breakups) when we were first dating and after a bit of time apart he would realize he missed me and call me up again. I just feel like this instinct he has to move out has been played out before and I know it won't help us or him...unless he was working through his emotions at the same time.

Do you think I'm being unreasonable to want to make that request? I am getting a little ahead of myself, because he hasn't yet expressed an interest to me to move out...getting myself prepared...just in case.

[paul m]

Hello Mrae. I understand your point about insisting he see a therapist. That is a judgment call that you are better able to make than I.

The reason why I say this is because: While you can make someone see a doctor or a therapist, you cannot make him accept the treatment. I can (and have in my past) gone faithfully to see the doctor, got my prescriptions filled and not swallowed a single pill, nor did I listen to what the doctor had to say or change my life style in any way.

I am not proud of that fact, nor am I proud of the extra distress it caused my family in the long run. The fact remains that until I was willing to accept that I had an illness and that I needed treatment for that illness, I wasn't going to get better anytime soon.

Even after I accepted my illness, it took a while for me to realize all of the changes that I had to make. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate all of the help that my wife has given me, but it's my illness and I have to take responsibility for it.

If your spouse is willing to see a therapist great, providing he wants to see one because he realizes that he needs to. Take Care. paul m

[mrae]

Thanks paul m. You are correct in every way - he can go through the motions just to appease me, but unless he recognises for himself that he needs treatment, nothing will change for him.

I found out last night, following a slight tiff where I was frustrated that he's constantly considering only himself when he makes plans for his future, that he went off his meds about a month ago without informing me. I got quite upset with him, mostly because he knows that my brother had a very bad experience going off paxil cold turkey and what that put me through. He seemed genuinely sorry that he hadn't told me, but only after he witnessed me react the way I did (let me tell you, it wasn't pretty!).

I'm wondering now if this last downswing was a result of him being off the meds, if it shows somehow that either the meds we helping, or if going off them cold turkey is an issue with him (I know not everyone experiences the same symptoms). He seems to think he's better now and doesn't need them, yet I still don't see him functioning any better than before...he's just in a slightly lifted spirit right now, but still constantly searching for that next great thing that will make him happy (but never ever does).

I brought up therapy to him again - I know I can't make him see that he's not living his life to the fullest...that he's just "existing" right now...but I tell him anyway, in the hopes that one if these days he might recognise that he needs to take control of his illness.

[paul m]

Hello Mrae. You are correct to keep bringing up treatment options. I can't speak for your spouse, but I sure made a lot of mistakes along the way.

Two of my more frequent ones were A) thinking that the meds weren't helping, so why should I endure all of the side effects and B) I would think that I was all better now and didn't need my meds any more.

Don't give up hope, but remember in the meantime you also have to remember to look after your own wellness. Take Care. paul m