doctors + the system = argh!!

[bluebandaid]

//Venting Warning//I think that I'm gonna lose my mind from the frustration of trying to find myself decent help from the system. I'm getting a very bad impression of P-docs, I'm guessing this is because the only Psychiatrists who are taking new patients are the crappy ones.Maybe? I don't know, my faith in doctors has been almost completely eroded. I mean there must be some competant doctors out there somewhere!

So after wasting 1.5 years with a nice guy who wasn't interested in really doing the work (just chatting about gardening). I had a diagnosis session by the head of mood disorders at UBC. They said yes BP2.

I was refered (before that one session) to a very authoritative doctor. She seemed like she knew her stuff but she over prescribed. And still (with all those anti psychotics anti-convulsants etc.) not really helping. She said no anti-depressants which meant that I was dopey as all get out, but also desperately sad. She said she didn't want me taking anti-depressants because that would make my manic tendancies worse. (I've never actually had a manic state, just hypo-manic. She got angry when I started taking some celexa because I was so sad and furious. That made me think that the situation (her kind of imperious bitchy way of talking to me) was not a good one. That I needed to find someone both kind and knowledgeable (gasp, that's too much to aks for)

So I called the South Mental Health Team. (found them on the internet) 13 doctors?! Support groups! Sounds great. They said they needed more info and gave me the impression they were going to help me. They asked for info from my current P-Doc and I told them that she wouldn't handle well any kind of suggestion that I was looking for help elsewhere. I warned them that she would be angry. They said don't worry. Then they called her for my file and she dumped me. You are not my patient anymore, she said, you are a patient of the SMHT. So then they didn't get back to me for ages and she wouldn't help me. I ran out of medication (she had been giving it to me a week at a time) and had to miss a day of work (I was having withdrawal) and go see my regular GP. Then they kept saying we need more time blah blah blah. Then they said that because I am not psychotic or paranoid I'm not the right kind of crazy for them. Why didn't they tell me that you need to be psychotic or paranoid to join their "team"? I guess that would involve too much honesty. You can't trust the mentally ill with the truth. They said: We won't see you because you'd be better served by out-patient at VGH (main Vancouver hospital). But that wouldn't happen until September (this was in June). They said have your GP handle your prescriptions and we'll see you for a one-time assesment so we can give you and the GP advice about medication.

So then I saw them today, after telling my life story, they said maybe you have Borderline Personality Disorder.

I know that I don't have that, but my protestations were met with: You see how you're reacting now? That's proof that you have this thing. I said (pointing to each symptom in the DSM description of BPD) "I don't have that, I don't have that" I explained this and that, They said "hmmm maybe not". But of course they couldn't change their mind because that would mean losing face. There were two of them in there. And then they said that VGH won't actually provide me with a P-doc just a course in DBT (I think it's called). So now I have no Pdoc and no prospect of that. I have a label on my file that is incorrect. I also have so much frustration that I don't know what to do with myself. I wish I could dump the whole system.

To be mistreated when it's a mental illness is worse than something physical, because everytime I try to use the system to get help for myself I have to expose my soul to these people. (I know what I have is physical too but you know what I mean) I know it would suck too if it was a more physical type problem. yeah, it would suck if I had bad care and it was a knee thing or a heart thing. But this feels so invasive because every time it feels like they're judging me, I have to talk about my deepest feelings, my relationships, my darkest thoughts, and they get to be condesending and still I get nowhere. Actually this experience was more like going backwards - at least before I called them I had a crappy P-doc, now, after their "help" I have no Pdoc and a mis-diagnosis on my file. Thanks guys!

OK. I wish I could erase this from my mind. I really don't want to feel so negative but I just feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall.

I mean, if this is my experience, what must the people with more serious problems encounter? I mean if I was paranoid or psychotic, if I had no job and no stable relationships for support, I would probably just collapse under the weight of the difficulty of finding proper help. I can't help fantasizing about a life without all this mess. I wonder if I could just stop this nonsense? But I can't because I do have a mental illness and I need to take medication.

I want to just be normal happy person. Do they exist?

Thanks for reading this vent, guys. You actually got to the end?

Sorry if this is too long for this type forum, but I needed to get it out. (deep sigh) I feel better already.

Big Hug to y'all for being there.

[paul m]

Your right the syste is the pits. Unfortunately with the shortage of docs they will dump you quick if they find you inco-operative.(uncooperative from their point of view, not mine).

It can be really tough to find a shrink that we can deal with, but all you can do is keep trying.

The follwing is not a criticism as I understand. Just a statement of facts as they are here in Ontario. If you get caught self medicating with different meds than perscribed almost 100% of the time the shrink will dump you and you may have trouble getting a new shrink any time you get dumped for any reason.

My son got dumped by his shrink a few yrs ago because he had trouble making early morning appts. He has not found a new one yet, but he did find a G.P. that has taken an interest. Perhaps you can get lucky that way as well

You certainly have a need to vent and system is not fair. Good Luck and Take Care. paul m

[Woody]

Vent away BlueBandAid! There is a program limit the the size of the posts but it does not stop you from posting more then one message in a row if you want to vent more


My original pdoc up north that was treating me for depression back in 1998 did the same thing. He talked about everything else but about my depression. He had this real heavy Scottish accent. I asked him once why we never talked about my depression. He said something to the fact that he already knew that I was depressed and more interested in what else I was doing. Strange old man.

What you are going threw is unfortunate and only highlights out F~up the system is. The South Mental Health team should have told you from the onset that they only treat patients with psychosis or paranoia. And your Pdoc should not have let you go as a patient before it was confirmed that you had a new Pdoc. But you know this already.

You probably do not want to hear this, but if you want to have a Pdoc, you might have to hold your nose and take someone less then expected ... at least until you can find someone that you can be happy with.

The other thing you probably do not want to hear is about your diagnosis. You seem to have some doctor agreeing on the PB and some with the BPD. Could it be that you have both. If you have been reading the DSM, there are instances where you can have a comorbid diagnosis. So a Axis I BP with an Axis II BPD or something to that manner.

Keep up the fight ... and you will get there!

[paul m]

Hello Woody. I gotta agree with you on the unfairness of the system. Its getting so bad somebody should issue a manuel on on to get a decent pdoc ( or even a G.P.) and then what to expect when problems occur.

Sorta like " My doc knows nothing about my illness, oh here's what to do on page 11" .

I think the complaint that I hear the most at our support group is about the lack of patient and knowledgable docs. I know there are many out there, but they are over whelmed. Take Care. paul m

[edmbigrl]

I am so frustrated with the medical system too. I've been off work for a month now and still don't have a pdoc to oversee the med change that was recommended in my psychiatric assessment. There hasn't even been a referral yet! I believe I am getting more depressed being off work.

[Woody]

Edmbigrl, and I know this is going to sux, but have you tried the yellow pages?

[edmbigrl]

I'm so depressed now that I don't even want to try. Earlier this week I called about 20 pdoc offices. No one taking new patients.

I go to my family dr (that I have seen once) tonight. I'm hoping he'll refer me to a program at the hospital. I've been told I can get a pdoc that way.

I feel like everything is so much effort.

[bluebandaid]

thanks for the hard truth

I need to just figure out what I need and get my MD to prescribe. Pdocs seem more work than what they're worth.

My complaint about my first PDoc is going to a formal review stage. (College of Phys and Surg). I have a feeling it will have a significant effect on this doc, but I thought long and hard before I wrote my complaint. It is only because it (this complaint) is the most recent after many (reviewed and upheld) before me that it is being taken seriously. This guy has had so many chances that he really shouldn't be making any mistakes anymore, or he should just quit.

Anyway, it's sad that the patient has no power in the Pdoc-"client" equation. I mean we feel low enough right? Luckily I get respect in my day job so I sit up and take notice when I start getting talked to like I'm a child. He seemed surprised (this last one) when I challenged him on this issue. He was telling me (like I was brain damaged or 10 years old) in a kind voice that I had real potential. I said that was conscending and he was genuinly surprised to be getting flack for what he thought was a complement. I only mention this to point out that these Pdocs live a world where the `clients`(what a strange word for this situation) are mostly demoralized. I'm sure he saw my challenge as proof of a personality disorder, but if you look for stuff like that you'll find it in most people.

Woody: I know that BP and BPD are often confused and may exist in the same person. I have no problem with people with BPD (better if they're getting help), but I'm not one of them. I have many flaws and mental illness symptoms blah blah blah. Just not that one. I'm pretty sure anyway.

Paul M: thanks for the support, at least it sucks and is absurd all over?? not really comfort, I wish the news was better for others like me in other places, but at least it means I'm not wrong about feeling like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall -- The wall is really brick and thick!


EDMBIGRL: damn girl -- I send my love and if I kill the evil system that makes people suffer with rays of hate from my eyes I would people in mental anguish shouldn't have to fight like this for help.

If it were like this for people with diabetes or heart disease people would listen more. My credibility is shot on this issue before I even open my mouth. I mean, who do you believe? The crazy woman or the doctor with years of experience?

Whatever. Often crazy people are the best people on the planet so

fight the power!

Thanks for all the well wishes

[paul m]

Hello Edbigrl. I can understand how frustrated and miserable you feel. Your in a tough situation and it's all the harder trying to do it alone.

I wish I had more comforting words, but hang in there. You can get better. Keep posting here and at lest that way you can let off some steam. Take Care. paul m

[paul m]

Hello Bluebandaid. Once I actually got escorted out of a hospital that I was trying to get admitted into. I did not like the E.R. shrink's attitude towards me and told him so, words were exchanged, but for some reason the security guards took his word.

Looking back I guess I was lucky that I did not end up in a straight jacket and a butt full of Ativan or worse.

Thx for the Thx. But really I should be thanking you and everybody else. Without fellow posters forums would not exist. Support groups and forums are an important part of my dailey regiment to stay reasonable well.

Keep Fighting, believe me its worth it and I've seen all sides of the coin. Take Care. paul m

[AJ]

I once got a slap from a security guard on my way (air ambulance) to a hospital that had a psych ward. I was restrained at the time (apparently they do that with all psych patients, in case you jump out of the plane, or something???), and all I could do was spit at him. Grrrh.

[paul m]

Hello AJ. I must admit that I thought that I had been through a lot of rough things, but that pretty much tops it. Restrained in an air amulance, with a rough security guard!! If I wasn't crazy when I got on, I would have been when I got off. I don't much like flying in the first place, or being restrained, the security card would have just nicely sent me over the edge.

Reminds me of a friend of mine who called a local distress line and said that he was thinking about committing suicide. While he was talking to them, they dispatched an amulance and two cops ( a lot of distress lines here have call display).He had not realized this and answered the knock at his door. By the time it was all over he had been peppered sprayed and ended up in jail for assaulting a police officer.(ended up with a criminal record too)

The real crime was that he had only phoned to find out where he could get help, but the distress center over reacted. I will admit though that most times distress centers do great work. Take Care. paul m

[Woody]

I do not know if they are still running it, but there was a program in the GTA where they had a Pnurse riding with a police officers. The goal was to train these officers in how to properly respond when having to deal with a subject that might have a mood disorder. Apparently they have zero training in this mater! They are in most cases the first responders to any 911 or emergency call and they have ø training! It just boggles the mind!

AJ, when I was still up north, one of my friends that teaches a class to paramedics invited me to be a victim. This was for the final exam. It was really neat. They even had an ambulance inside the class ... how they got an ambulance in a class on the 3 floor is another question! Everybody is suppose to get strapped ... to the board ... to the gurney. Does not mater if its for a hang nail, your suppose to get strapped. That they actually do it every time well...

Bluebandaid glad you have your GP to work with ... keep up the fight!

[paul m]

Hello Woody. I do not know if that program is still runing or not. I have had little to do with Toronto Police.

However the biggest problem that I have seen with the provincial police is lack of support from higher up. Head office talks big, but is low on actual training with realistic situations when it comes to mental health situations. So you are very right when you say they have zero training.

Plus in my quiet rural area there are only two officers on late at night, so if they run into a problem regional HQ wants them to hurry up and move on in case something else comes up. You cannot hurry a person with a mental ilness without making things worse.Take Care. paul m

[edmbigrl]

My boyfriend worked with the RCMP. Management there was so crooked it wasn't funny. Where there is power there is abuse.