Input Needed ASAP

[GraceB]

That is part of the reason why my doctor chose Seroquel, was to help me get a regular sleep pattern back. Last night, despite taking the 50mg pill before bed, I really didn't sleep at all. I lay in bed for 10 hours hoping that sleep would come. I spoke with my grandma last night and it made me realize why I never tell her anything is wrong unless I have no other choice. :/ I think because of her sharing her anxiety with me, is part of the reason why I didn't sleep.

[astronaut]

My pdoc works on Sundays! But the bad thing is that she only works on Sundays and Mondays so I can't see her any other day of the week.

As for your heart, just because your resting heart rate is low is not a reason to worry about your heart on meds. My resting heart rate is usually very low because of being an athlete for so many years. Generally speaking, because my heart rate is low from exercise and not something else, that means that my heart is very strong and healthy so it can handle stress well. That being said, if the seroquel makes your chest tight or you have heart palpitations or something, then you should talk to your pharmacist. I don't think heart issues are a typical side effect though...?

astronaut

[GraceB]

Astronaut,

I'm thinking about what you said about getting a diagnosis. I guess there are two reasons why I might want to seek a diagnosis. One is to see if I could qualify for ODSP to help augment my income, which at the moment is somewhere around the $500 / month mark. The other was to try and help me explain things to my family, I guess especially my grandmother, whom I've talked about a bit already.

I think my grandmother doesn't need that explanation anymore. She is coming to terms with the fact that I am still struggling, despite many successes along the way. As for ODSP, so far I am not sure what I will qualify for, or if I will even find another job quickly enough that it won't even matter in the long run. I guess I will have to wait and see.

There is a possibility that I may move to the US in the future, and if I did so, what you suggest about private health care would be extremely important. Thank you.

[astronaut]

Hi GraceB,

Years and years ago, I too wanted a concrete diagnosis. I mostly just wanted to know what was wrong with me. It was less scary to have a name and a category and a biological reason/explanation. Now I am coming to believe that my label of 'bipolar II' has complicated things far more than it has simplified or explained things.

"Bipolar II" is NOT a medical illness. It is a social, economic, political, cultural, social scientific, linguistic weapon. What I am feeling is sickness, is suffering, is pain, is hurt. The people who love me feel parts of those things too if they have to watch me experience this sickness. I know what my suffering is, Do I ever! But my suffering is not a label. When I am given the label, then there are more opportunities to suffering in all those other areas that Bipolar II operates in. Is this necessarily a bad thing? Well, stigma sucks and being poor sucks but I don't know if it is all bad but it certainly is different and more complicated. When there is a label, anyone can use it.
When it is me experiencing the suffering without a box around it, dictating what my suffering means, then maybe it is easier for me to experience my suffering in a less negative way.

Complicated stuff. I'm still trying to work it out myself. Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say that "mental illness" is not highly biological, or is not "real," quite the opposite. I am trying to say that the way we label and describe "mental illness" is very cultural, political and social and is not a pure, unmediated reflection on what is taking place in our bodies and minds.

astronaut

[GraceB]

I am so sorry that things are that way Astro. I wish that people were accepted for who they were and people left it at that. I am sorry to hear that you feel as though some people and society has used your illness against you as a weapon. It *is* useful for things like receiving the right treatment, having access to proper care, and for some benefits like disability. My doctor and I are treating my symptoms without cause for whatever may be underlying. In my case I am sure that it is complicated because not only are there environmental and biological factors but also past traumas as well, all we know is that these things have combined to make me unwell. So right now all I know is that I am trying to adjust my current situation so that I become well and functional again, because I have lived there, for long periods of time, and without treatment as well. I am grateful for my experience because I realize how precious my health is and understand things that I have done in the past that have contributed to my being healthy for so long that I am attempting to resume again. Although yes, without income at the moment so it is a struggle. Do I have to give up on my dreams? Will I be able to fulfill my dreams despite the difficulties and obstacles? I am feeling hopeful at the moment. But every day is different.

[sep]

Hi Astronaut,

As usual you bring up some very thoughtful issues. I wanted to comment on it briefly with my own thoughts (which, btw I am in no way criticizing yours because we all have opinions which are equally valid). I have actually found that the 'label' has been very useful on a personal level (societal level is perhaps much different and a whole other interesting subject). Personally though I found having the label and understanding the illness (I view it as entirely medical) helped me not only with dealing with the past and many bad things that happened when I was not diagnosed, but also with experiencing a return of symptoms. The last time I had an episode of depression, while the symptoms were unbearable and I did nothing but lay in my room and cry, at the end of the day I still KNEW why it was happening which I think is a huge relief from not knowing. I don't feel like the label defines or confines my suffering when I am sick, but rather is in a weird way comforting. Again, perhaps because I view it purely as a medical illness (because this seemed to make way more sense than other explanations for me), I don't feel as if it takes away from my experiences personally in any way - just that it causes them to happen at times.

Sorry for hijacking the thread but I couldn't resist adding my two cents on the matter.

[astronaut]

Hey sep,

I think we are talking about two different things. I also perceive my illness as being biological (though I do think that environmental triggers and stresses play a big role too). I have never had any traumatizing experiences, abuse, neglect, etc. and I have always had a very kind and supportive family, and friends too, once I got older. There are also many strange things that happen when I get into a depressive episode which make me realize how oddly uncontrollable and chemical it is. I will feel things like guilt for no reason. I have awful physical pain, etc.

I wanted the label too, especially when I was in such a horrible place that I had to drop out of school in my last month of university before graduation. I wanted to know what was wrong and I wanted someone to fix me. Well, that is great and all. They gave me a name for my suffering but at the end of the day, that label never fixed me or helped me to be more understood or helped me to understand myself better. It closed down all sorts of options for me and my parents, and even the doctors in terms of how they thought about me. I'm not saying that labels are bad or unhelpful. I am not saying that diagnosis is not important and useful in most cases. I am saying that diagnosis is a construct and sometimes it is a lot of "best guesses." In fact, the term "objectivity" is a cultural construct and just a certain way of looking at the world.

I am suffering from an illness--or a "disease" as it feels like to me because it has been so chronic. It affects every aspect of my being and impacts the people around me. But illnesses, ALL illnesses, not just mood disorders, are perceived and experienced in highly cultural ways. Words have baggage. That is why labels change over time i.e. manic depressive now equals bipolar. I don't think I am pointing out anything very new or interesting. I am simply talking about how medical culture, media, society, etc. shape our understanding and perception of illness. I am simply talking about the extension of a disease from feeling like HELL all the time, to feeling like you can only ever talk about what is going on inside of your head on an online forum because you're afraid that people in the "real" world will think you have something that they've seen on Dr. Phil. And all this is coming from me, a person who has been really lucky in having been able to let people know why I'm acting strange or withdrawing and have them not judge me for it, even if they have never had depression before.

I am not judging labels as good or bad. There is no judgement. There will always be constructs and structures that help us explain and understand our world personally and socially and to bring meaning to our lives. What I want to say is that I for one want to be critically aware of what happens when I get diagnosed with something. A diagnosis is not an illness, it is a sign. The illness might be debilitating in a number of ways but I don't want the "sign" or "symbol" of my illness to pigeon hole me into how I perceive myself and the world.

astronaut

[Kaight]

Labels resulting in prejudice is what comes to mind.
If I tell someone that I suffer from depression, then inevitably they will refer to their understanding of the word in order to understand me and my actions (if I'm lucky enough that they bother to try to understand). Their understanding of a word is unlikely to be parallel with my understanding... this can lead to misunderstanding...

[astronaut]

Well Kaight, what you are saying is kind of what I am saying, but not really. I'm not a relativist. What I am speaking to here is the meaning created between people when they socially build a conceptualization of a phenomena (in this case, mental illness or depression). I DON'T think that my understanding and experience of depression is ONLY found in me. I think it is also mediated by the people around me and what they say about depression and how they have experienced it, etc.

[GraceB]

Hi Astro,

Please just remember one thing, despite your diagnosis. You are NOT your diagnosis.

You are a very special, caring, intelligent young person who does suffer from an illness that causes some disability but you are unique and special and I pray that you do not let the illness define everything you are and everything you can be.

I did the same with my schooling, I went from dean's list for 2 years straight to being unable to finish. Crippled. But it did not define the rest of my life and I have used my education more than some who graduated. Many people graduate and never use their degree.

I just pray that you realize how special you are. (There, I said it 3 times!)

[dave]

There are times that I refer to my difficulties as me having problems with depression, at times I don't use the words bipolar disorder or mental illness. This partly because I assume that a person may not know what bipolar disorder is or not accurately understand the condition and at that particular time I am not interested in giving an explanation. Also I don't use the term mentally ill because I also want to avoid and misconceptions about my nature or capabilities. I don't want others to think I'm "crazy".

[paul m]

Hello Everyone. Good points that you all have brought up. I'm at a different point in my life than many of you so my thoughts are a little different.

I regualerly discuss my having bipolar with people who didn't know before. I constantly put that fact out there to just about anyone who will listen as it is my way of lessening the stigma a little. All too often the only time we hear about a mental illness in the news or even in the local neighbourhood gossip is when something bad happens. I try to change that image and show that people can have bad illnesses and still be good people.

However, I'm at a very solid position in my life(well as solid as someone with serious bipolar ever gets LOL). I can afford to have some people think that I'm crazy, so to speak. Others are not so fortunate and have to be very careful as there is still a lot of prejudice in the world. Plus I am strong enough to put up a spirited, but carefully worded arguement with some prejudice individual, well others aren't at that point yet.

I also admit that unfortunately all to often when I try to educate people, they either refuse to release their old prejudices or they just aren't interested in learning.

Everybody has to make their own decision about who they tell about their illness as telling the wrong people can sometimes have bad consequences.

Plus of course, unless someone is contagious, your health is really nobodies business but your own and you are free to tell or not to tell, whomever you wish. Take Care. paul m

[astronaut]

Sorry guys but I think I am being really inarticulate about this and being completely misunderstood.

Grace--I don't think that I do define myself as "bipolar" at all. I rarely tell people about it because it is rarely necessary. I am very honest about it when it does become necessary i.e. if I behave in a worrying manner in front of my roommates who didn't know about my illness before and I have to tell them what is going on, or if I know that I am going down hill really fast and I need to tell some school faculty what is going on incase I have to drop out suddenly. I am not ashamed of the illness itself.

All that being said, the illness has caused things to happen in my past that CANNOT be denied or ignored. For instance, I have dropped out of school because of my illness. That did happen to me. That did hurt. That was a disappointment. That DID lead into four years of chronic depression at various intensities. Do I have to look back at it now as a failure? NO. Do I look back on it as a failure? NO, not anymore. During that time did I feel like a human being? Did I feel like a caring, intelligent person? NO. Was I a caring intelligent person? Not most of the time. Did my illness take away my very being, my very humanity, my very self? Yes, yes, it did that.

You say that I am NOT my illness. I am going to say that I don't see identity that way. My illness is a huge part of my life and it has had a huge impact on the choices I have made/not made, on the experiences I have had, on my capabilities to do/think/feel certain things. I am not only my illness, but my illness is constantly playing a role in shaping and re-shaping who I am and who I have been and will be. My identity does not only come from inside of me, but it comes from outside of me too. It comes from what people tell me about myself or how people interact with me and it comes from what people think and say about me too. The good thing about that is that there is a lot of room for shifts and changes in my "identity" over time. Also, because part of me is always out there, always "out there" inside of other people or between other people in our interactions, my identity is in flux and not fixed. So even though there are certain "facts" that I can't ignore (i.e. being diagnosed as bipolar), my way of relating that label to my "self" and my "being" is not fixed.

I'm still sorting out what has been happening to me and who I think I am. My illness isn't the only thing that defines me but I can't ignore the incredible impact it has had on my life and my experience of the world and my experience of other people. I'm not just some pure person with an illness that might get put on me and taken off of me like a hat. No, the illness does not "define" who I am. I, (and other people) "define" who I am, but my experience of depression is part of that definition.

astronaut

astronaut

[Kaight]

Astronaut - I read your post a couple times, I think I get it.

Say I had a pie chart to describe me, the chart would be labeled "Kaight". Within that chart would be a big wedge labeled "Depression".

I guess my pie chart oversimplifies though, as it does'e really show the interactions between my depression and the other "wedges" of my life.

Maybe a web-type chart would be better.

Am I any closer to understanding your view?

Kaight

[paul m]

Hello Astronaut. I don't think that you are being inarticulate. I agree with 95% of what you are saying, which for me is pretty good. I usually only agree with 90% of what I say. Take Care. paul m

Hello Everybody. My illness doesn't define me either, but it definitely impacts my every day life. To give an example some days I'm unable to get out and do what I want. I have trouble getting into the car and going shopping. I really enjoy hiking but my illness at times flares up badly and robs me of that simple pleasure. At weddings and socials I often have to sit and watch everyone else dance and have a good time.

Oh by the way I'm not talking about my battles with bipolar in the above, it's the arthritis in my knees that some days rob me of the ability to do the above.

I have no problem telling people why I can't dance some nights is due to my arthritis and everybody seems to understand that. I'm looking forward to the day when I can tell everyone that I can't dance because my anxiety is acting up and that they will understand. I know that may be in the future.

In the meantime, my various illnesses have had and continue to have a large impact on my life. They don't define my life, but they sure do affect it.

Society has came a long way in the last 20 years. 20 years ago if I had told someone that I had bipolar they would have moved 20 ft away, if they didn't flee the room altogether. Now adays they merely move a couple of feet away. Take Care. paul m