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    Lithium facts

    Hello All. There has been some discussion about lithium lately. The following are just rough guide lines and are no substitute for your docs experience and blood work.

    When docs initially try and decide how much lithium they should use they use the following forumla. 15-20 mg of lithium per kg of body weight. Thus a person weighing 60 kilos(132 lbs) would be worked out to between 900 and 1200 mg of lithium. (at very low or very high body masses that guessimate doesn't work so well) A 100 kg man may take 1500-2000mg or more, a dose that may well kill the lighter person.

    The reason for all the blood work as that dosage is only an initial guess, a lot depends on how your body processes lithium and how you react.

    The real readings your doc is looking for is your blood levels expressed in plasma concentration hopefully between 0.6 to 1.2 mmol Li+/litre . Below .6 lithium doesn't work so well (there are exceptions) and above 1.5 you may start to O.D.

    Generally the doc looks for the lowest theraputic level that will work. It's fine to say I would like to stay at .6 to keep the side effects down, but if it doesn't work for you at that level, then your wasting your time.

    After a while your docs will get a pretty good idea of how much lithium to use to keep you stable. Not me, or anybody else but you.

    Unlike many other meds, lithium dosage is a really individual amount so never think that because paul takes 1800 mg daily and sometimes more, you can take that much too.It could kill you. As well, a lithium overdose can occur if you become dehydrated. Either through to much sun, not enough fluids or a severe case of the runs or the flu will do it too. Take Care. paul m
    "Alone we can do so little;
    Together we can do so much"
    Helen Keller

    #2
    Thanks Paul for the info on lithium

    I have been doing some research on the net and found some encouraging studies on Lithium helping to reduce impulsive gambling.

    Below is a name of an article and a link to the American Journal of Psychiatry

    Does Sustained-Release Lithium Reduce Impulsive Gambling and Affective Instability Versus Placebo in Pathological Gamblers With Bipolar Spectrum Disorders? http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/...ract/162/1/137
    Take Care,
    Karen

    Courage does not always roar. Sometimes it is a quiet voice at the end of the day, saying...
    "I will try again tomorrow."

    Comment


      #3
      Hello Karen. Thx for sharing. I found that a very interesting article. I wonder why they used substained release(SR). There should be little difference between SR and regular lithium taken 4 times a day.

      If you get a chance ask your doc about SR or extended release lithium, as far as I know it no longer available in Canada. However if some body found me a legal supply that my benefit plan would pay for I would be very grateful to them.

      SR is much easier on the stomach and other side effects, but I found that it didn't work much different. Take Care. paul m
      "Alone we can do so little;
      Together we can do so much"
      Helen Keller

      Comment


        #4
        I have an appt with my doc next Monday, I'll ask him about the extended release lithium at that appt

        This site mentions 2 slow release versions of lithium in Canada.
        Lithium reference guide for safe and effective use from the American Society of Health-System Pharmacists (AHFS DI).
        Last edited by Atlantis; April 26, 2010, 03:45 PM.
        Take Care,
        Karen

        Courage does not always roar. Sometimes it is a quiet voice at the end of the day, saying...
        "I will try again tomorrow."

        Comment


          #5
          Hello Karen. Well, you will have to wait a while to earn my undying gratiude. Duralith came off the market a while ago because the patent ran out(read the mfg couldn't make enough money) and lithium SR(carbolith) was removed because the mfg ran into quality control problems and they agreed with health Cda to quit making several products(lithium SR being one of them). The chemical makeup of the product was fine, it was the mfg that had the problems with quality control.

          Technically they still are on the market and approved for sale in Canada, just currently not available for distribution. Which means, either one could instantly come back into the market without additional gov't approval.

          So drugs.com was technically correct, they are legal for sale in CDA, now we just have to get someone to do so. I expect that someday they will start production again, so I ask everybody if they have heard anything. But thx for looking for me. Take Care. paul m P.S. Another problem is no one wants to start making another generic product while the various provinces are trying to force price cuts on them.
          "Alone we can do so little;
          Together we can do so much"
          Helen Keller

          Comment


            #6
            I'll still check with my doc for you .

            The dry skin and the bad taste in my mouth are not as bad this week and i haven't had to take my trazadone for sleep in about 2 weeks. I am hoping once i get on the right dose of lithium i will not need the trazadone at all, or atleast a much lower dose than the 200 mg that i was taking before.

            I'll have my blood work done again on friday, I am on 900 mg now, I may need to go to 1200 mg, I'll have to wait and see what my levels are.

            I'll let you know what the doc says on Monday.
            Last edited by Atlantis; April 27, 2010, 05:14 AM.
            Take Care,
            Karen

            Courage does not always roar. Sometimes it is a quiet voice at the end of the day, saying...
            "I will try again tomorrow."

            Comment


              #7
              Hi,
              I never realized the danger of becoming dehydrated on lithium while drinking alcohol...
              I don't even drink that much, I went out last weekend with a friend who was home from away, had some drinks, it was the first bit of alcohol I had in a year, but I had way too many, it was like I could barely feel the effect of the alcohol.

              I later read that lithium blunts the effect of alcohol so you have to drink more to get that "buzzed" feeling, which is even more dangerous because there is an even greater chance of dehydration.

              I think I am lucky I drank a lot of water that day and I was only on a very low dose of lithium, if I had to be at a higher dose of lithium and my body got dehydrated enough from the alcohol i could of been at risk for lithium toxicity.

              I just wanted to share this for anyone reading this thread, if i had to know this I would not of drank alcohol that night.
              Last edited by Atlantis; April 29, 2010, 05:45 AM.
              Take Care,
              Karen

              Courage does not always roar. Sometimes it is a quiet voice at the end of the day, saying...
              "I will try again tomorrow."

              Comment


                #8
                Hello Karen. You are correct, taking lithium can certainly change how alcohol reacts wih your body . Alcohol is a duiretic (as is caffine, smoking also dties you out a bit). You can get a world class hangover(without the fun) by drinking very much, while taking lithium.

                If you really want to be miserable for a few days try drinking and lying on the beach all day or dancing the evening away in a hot bar. Or for that matter play soccer or baseball hot a hot day while drinking coca-cola.(coke has caffine and can dehydrate)

                If you do overdo it, I usually find that drinking plenty of fluids and a bottle or two of gator aide usually returns my equillimrium quicker.

                I do a lot of hiking and even without booze or caffine I have to be sure to drink enough water and to drink sports drinks to make sure I get not only my water levels up but to keep up keep my elecrolyte levels proper.

                Thx for posting the warning Karen. Take Care. paul m
                "Alone we can do so little;
                Together we can do so much"
                Helen Keller

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hi Paul,
                  I saw my pdoc today and I forgot to ask him about the extended release lithium, I feel so bad , my memory is terrible.
                  I have another appt next week so I'll just put a sticky on my forehead and I shouldn't forget this time I'll use code, so no one knows we are looking for an elusive form of Lithium

                  My lithium level is 0.5 so we increased the dose from 900 to 1200.
                  Hopefully with this increase i will be in the therapeutic range.

                  I haven't been feeling well lately, my moods are not stable and I am not sleeping well. My pdoc switched my sleeping med from Trazodone to Imovane because even a low dose of trazodone with the lithium was leaving me feeling like a zombie during the day.

                  I'm not sure my life will ever get back to what it was before i got sick, as a matter of fact, I know it will not, atleast not for a very long time and it scares me.
                  Take Care,
                  Karen

                  Courage does not always roar. Sometimes it is a quiet voice at the end of the day, saying...
                  "I will try again tomorrow."

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Keep breathing Karen. Your life may not ever be as it was, but you will get better, honest.
                    AJ

                    Humans punish themselves endlessly
                    for not being what they believe they should be.
                    -Don Miguel Ruiz-

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thanks AJ .
                      It meens so much to me to have this forum in my life. I have connected with so many of you and feel i can share my experiences about my illness and i have learned so much from all of you since joining. It really helps me not feel so alone and that is a huge thing for me in my life.

                      I had a talk with my Mom yesterday and I was surprised that I starting crying, really crying, liking sobbibg crying, I just let it all out and it felt good. I have great parents, who love me more than anything, Mom said they are trying to understand and i believe her, so I spent about 30 mins telling her what it felt like for me during a major episode. I didn't want to get into it too much, it would be too much for her and me.

                      By the end of the talk we hugged and I felt better and so did she. I really just wanted them to understand that this last episode I had was extremely difficult on me and I am still not better, I am not sure the family really understands how much I actually went through mentally in the past couple of months.

                      Sorry AJ, I really rambled on there...I am waiting to get into see a tdoc, I really need to see someone to sort through issues I have.
                      I should of been in the hospital, my pdoc and i agreed if I have another episode i will be admitted, as I got better I realized just how lucky I was to have made it through the first couple of weeks of my episode, when i was the most sick.
                      I have a lot of trouble thinking about these things and what the outcome could have been

                      Thanks for listening
                      Take Care,
                      Karen

                      Courage does not always roar. Sometimes it is a quiet voice at the end of the day, saying...
                      "I will try again tomorrow."

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hello Karen. It's tough having a major illness or handicap that no one understands. I know that all to well.

                        However as AJ has said you will get better. Your life will be changed though. I'm not saying that you won't be able to do normal or even great things, just your life will have changed. No one can live through the trauma of any major illness or accident and not have their life changed. Not to mention the limits that some meds may place on us.

                        Unfortunately few docs explain this to us and I know that for me I wasted some valuable time trying to get my old life back. Who wouldn't, for a while I had a pretty good life and I wanted it all back(well maybe minus a few glitches) .

                        What I didn't realize was that my life could be made better in the long run. I wouldn't wish this illness on my worse enemy, but as long as I have it, I might as well learn what I can and cannot do. It took a long time for that to sink in.

                        The past can be scarey to think about and sometimes it's impossible not to think about it.( ask me about my nightmares) But your a fighter Karen, keep fighting and eventually you'll truly enjoy life again, I know because I do Take Care. paul m
                        "Alone we can do so little;
                        Together we can do so much"
                        Helen Keller

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi Karen . I hope you have a better day today, and that you get in to see a tdoc soon. I'm in your corner.
                          uni

                          ~ it's always worth it ~

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks Paul and Uni .

                            There are no support groups in my area, except one for family members, so i am very grateful to have this forum, it has helped me so much over the past few months.
                            Take Care,
                            Karen

                            Courage does not always roar. Sometimes it is a quiet voice at the end of the day, saying...
                            "I will try again tomorrow."

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hi Karen. I just want to say that as I read this thread I am crying. I haven't written alot lately as I too have not been well. I have been cycling alot and getting physically really tired. I go see my pdoc on Friday and I think they might suggest Lithium. It has been interesting to read the information here.
                              I hope you feel better soon.
                              Tracey

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