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**paul m** · October 17, 2015, 11:06 PM

Hello Macduffy. I can understand your frustration of try, wait, try something different , wait , try something different wait etc. It can a long tedious process and I agree that the system doesn't help very much either.

I went through that and I started to have a bit better luck when I went to my doctor fully prepared with I wanted to try and good reasons why I wanted to try it. Sometimes my docs wouldn't let me try something, but generally they were more prepared to listen if I had fully researched the medication. Not just the positive, but any possible negatives too, including what possible side effects might happen,what the long term effects were(for example does it wear off after a few mths) and whether or not it was addictive and how it reacted with any other meds I was taking. Plus what doses I wanted to try and how it would affect me manic wise. (sometimes I thought that perhaps they just didn't want to admit that I knew more about a particular med than they did LOL)

I can't tell you what will work for you, however I can give you a couple of resources that may help you make up your mind. The first one is Drugs.com, it has a section where people can rate various medications they've taken to treat an illness. You can read what others think about modafinal there. http://www.drugs.com/comments/modafi...epression.html (as a side note they also show ratings for the 100 or so other medications used to treat depression)

In regards to cross border ECT's (and ECT's in general) ,Acaidia Hospital in Bangor Maine, has a good primer on how ECT's should be administered and what to expect. I have no idea if your province will cover part or any of the cost. Go to http://acadiahospital.org/Patient-Se...-Hospital.aspx and then click on the ECT patient information. I've never had an ECT, but I have talked to numerous people who have and like any other treatment success rates vary. However I can't think of anyone that I've talked to in the last 10 yrs, that has came out worse for having taken ECT's, 25 yrs ago was a different story. Good Luck in your endeavors to feel better. Take Care. paul m

**jgcr** · October 19, 2015, 10:22 PM

Hi Macduffy,
I'm in the same boat pretty much, only my pdoc actually suggested the ECT to me. I am going to give it a try. I am in NB and after a thourough researsh of it here in Fredericton, it's actually a very popular and busy treatment. I have been able to speak with some people with some experiences with the ECTs and say it's the best treatment they could have picked. Mind you, none other treatment have worked for them before, which is where I'm at. I can manage the manic phases but not the depression. I'm just waiting for the ECT now. It's definitely not what it used to be in the 1950's lol.... speaking with the appropriate professionals makes a big difference when getting the right information for the questions you may have. Make sure to do all your researsh, ask around, go to your hospital's psychology treatment department if you have one and ask them about their ECT treatment and how it works as well if you have to wait for your pdoc appointment. They help alot. They work there everyday. I haven't had it yet, but i'm hoping it will be the answer. It's not completely permanent. You do still need some tweeking, and eventually possibly some more treatment in months ahead, but isn't better than no progress at all? I know I'm at the point where I need to get better. I also know what it's like living this way with watching your kid's lives pass by while you are sick and no really present. If you ever want to talk, I think we may have more in common than you think. I would love to have a chat friend. Having someone understand where you come from and how you live sometimes is really hard to come by in our little world. I hope you find what will work best for you and hope you make the best educated decision that benefits both you first and your family.

**macduffy** · October 20, 2015, 08:52 AM

jgcr I'm also from Fredericton so we really do have more in common! I would love to know what you found out about local ECT. I sent you a friend request.I hope to hear from you. Thanks for your reply!

**macduffy** · October 22, 2015, 09:47 PM

jgcr I tried to send you a PM but it says you aren't set up to receive them. Feel free to send a message if you feel like chatting sometime!

AJ · October 23, 2015, 07:04 AM

At the top of the web page beside your username is 'settings'. In the section 'general' is a place to turn on private messaging.

**jgcr** · October 26, 2015, 10:55 AM

oh i'll have a look thanks! I think I've changed it.

**Bastille Day** · October 29, 2015, 08:07 PM

In regards to the first post, I been through all that and have pretty much given up on the health care system. Specialist don't return your messages, you call in hopes of getting help and they tell you there is only outpatient treatment only which for me meant, driving three hours to Toronto and driving home for an appointment that may only be 10 minutes. I am looking into ECT as well. effects. I always feel better though when I see the misery others are going through.

**jgcr** · October 30, 2015, 07:41 PM

I'm going to have the ECT treatment in Fredericton, but my Pdoc is going to have me admitted for the duration of the treatment. As an outpatient I won't be guaranteed my appointment as they are so busy in that department. That is the reason he will be admitting me. Making me an inpatient makes me a priority and guarantees my treatments in sequence before any outpatient scheduled appointments. Those outpatient appointments often get rescheduled. If you go the ECT route, as you are in Fredericton as well, make sure to bring this to your Pdoc. To make sure to be admitted for your treatment sequence, especially if you have had no luck with any other treatment, like me and need some relief to keep going on with your life. The is a priority. Hope that helps

**Bastille Day** · November 1, 2015, 01:30 PM

Thanks for the reply:

Please post a link to locations in Ontario or the eastern provinces that provide ECT if you have any links.

Also keep me and others informed of the process and if you feel better.

The only thing I worry about is memory.

I am a guitar player hack that spent years learning to play and would have to seriously think about what is more important.

The reason I say this is, sometimes playing and learning takes the edge off my difficult life.

thanks again mcd.

**paul m** · November 1, 2015, 08:09 PM

Hello Bastille Day. ECT's usually erase short term memory, like if you finished reading a book 3 days before your ECT, you may not be able to remember the ending. I've never heard of ECT's that have been done in this century erasing long term memory. But your doctor should be able to tell you.

In regards to where you can get ECT's done in eastern Ontario. I would think that you could get them done at the Royal Ottawa and I suspect at it subsidiary branch in Brockville. http://www.theroyal.ca/mental-health-centre/

I know that in the Kingston area they are done by Providence Care Mental Health Services http://www.providencecare.ca/Pages/default.aspx

Whitby isn't exactly eastern Ont but they also do them at Ontario Shores http://www.ontarioshores.ca/

There may be more, but you would have to call each hospital's mental health dept to see if they are done there. Take Care. paul m

**Bastille Day** · November 3, 2015, 08:14 PM

Thanks Paul for the information.

I actually found a treatment center in Windsor Ontario which is just up the road.

The story below indicates memory loss can be extreme and will certainly be discussed at the intake session.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2012/12/13/electroshock_therapy_more_prevalent_in_ontario_but_guidelines_are_minimal.html

Annette VanEs was a single mother in her 40s when she underwent a series of 40 treatments that, she says, resulted in catastrophic memory loss. “My brain goes into this scramble mode,” she says of her frame of mind now, 12 years later. “Scrambling, scrambling . . . You know that you lived. You went places. You made friends. You talked to people. You went to parties. You had values. You had ideas. You had beliefs. And now they’re not there.”

**paul m** · November 3, 2015, 10:22 PM

Hello Bastille Day. The following is just me standing on my soap box and moaning about how inaccurately the papers report stories and certainly is not directed at you. You have every right to be cautious.

I read those ECT stories when they were printed(there were a series of them) , I also read the rebuttal by several people. http://www.thestar.com/opinion/edito...epression.html , http://www.thestar.com/opinion/lette..._patients.html

The Toronto Star has a long history of using ECT articles as front line news and then printing rebuttals on the editorial page or hidden under letters to the editor(one example of each is above). (like other news)They Star is even known to use a very quotable persons comments against ECT's. The fact that, that person is also against insulin shock treatments and admits that he hasn't had an ECT since 1960's doesn't seem to matter(insulin shock went out in the early 60's)

Also little known is that Wells and her partner Zlomislic were writing an e-book about ECT's at the time. What better way to promote your book than to stir up controversy. Wells and partner never did retract the fact that they were wrong about the zooming increase in the number of ECT's done, even though the error was explained to them. The normal number of ECT's that a person has done is 6-12 and possibly as many as 20. The person in the news article claimed 40 in what sounds like a yr. An exceedingly high number and if she did have that number than her doc is to blame not the treatment.

However now that I have vented out my feelings toward the newspaper, I'll give you my full views on ECT's . First you are 100% correct to be careful where you get them done and you should ask lot's of questions, but that goes for any surgical procedure, there are always doctors who finished at the bottom of there class or who just don't care anymore. (just like any profession, some docs hate their jobs and don't keep updated).

Severe depression in itself can leave a person with blanked out periods of their life, just ask me and I've never had an ECT , but when I was really ill, my memory wasn't the best. Some was probably drug induced memory loss, but there are also periods before I started taking meds, that I'm not sure what really happened in my life.

I don't think that anyone wants to take ECT's , but most people that do it is as a last resort and I'll still stand by the statement that I made that I've never meant anyone who had ECT's in this century that had serious long term memory loss. Short term certainly. In the 60's and 70's real problems, not so many in the 80's and 90's , but even then it wasn't as refined as it is now(witness the person getting 40 treatments).

Good Luck making your decision and I hope that what ever you decide works out for you. Take Care. paul m

**Bastille Day** · November 4, 2015, 11:40 AM

All you said makes perfect sense.

Because they are also performed by private or public owned companies, I am even more skeptical.

Much more research to do on my part.

**jgcr** · January 28, 2016, 12:00 PM

Hi,
I'm just going to maybe tell you a bit about my recent experience with ECT, and it may help you feel better about the whole thing. I was very scared of getting the treatment, but since I am very resistant to the medication I have been trying over the past 2 yrs, I opted for the ECT. To be honest, my pdoc spoke to me about the ECT and then on the next appointment, decided to make me try another new pill before we would try the ECT... well I was done... I was done playing guinea pig and I was done with everything. This was mid November. I told my pdoc right there that I wanted the ECT treatments (even though I was scared/nervous, but I did all my research on them first), and that I wasn't going to make it to our next appointment if I didn't try something drastic.

4 days later (the beginning of Dec), my pdoc set up for me to be admitted to the hospital to start 3 weeks of ECT treatments. I had 9 treatments total. 3 per week. They really are very quick. They do put you to sleep for the treatment, and the whole thing only takes about 10-15 mins total. They basically induce a supervised seizure of about 1 min long. That's it. The rest of the time is prepping you to fall asleep, and waiting for you to wake up. You do end up feeling groggy due to the sleep med they gave you. You may experience a headache during the day and be quite tired. And once I was discharged (just before Xmas) I did experience a mild temporary memory loss for about 3 weeks, but it was all about really random small things, and it does all come back. It is TEMPORARY. I was told it can last up to 8 weeks but usually only that long if you have an extended amount of treatments in a row, or depending on your age (older individuals) It's all normal.

Now to tell you if I found that the treatments helped me... yes, alot... I'm not saying I'm done trying to get better, but the emotional side of me, is feeling so much better. I haven't felt like this is years. It's great. My thinking is a bit clearer. I feel like there is less chaos in my brain. I smile a lot more and I find that the dark cloud I had above me is almost gone. As for the anxiety, nerves, stress, I still have all of that, but at least I have not thought of ending my life at all. If anything, I'm at the point where I'm making plans for the future, and I haven't done that in years either. To be honest, I think getting the treatments was one of the best decisions I have done in my life. I'm just waiting to see if I'll need maintenance ECTs or not...

I totally understand the stress and fear that goes into making this decision. And I absolutely recommend that you do all of the research you feel you need. Also, ask your doc to answer questions/concerns you may have about the treatments. It's important in my opinion, that you know as much as you feel you need to know before you make that decision. Also if you do decide to take the treatments, you will still be nervous about the first treatment (mostly because it is the unknown right) but having researched all that information will help you be more comfortable with the idea. If you would like to talk more, feel free to message me. I may not be able to answer all your questions, but it's always nice to know you can have acess to speaking to someone who has gone through it, if you want to. I wish you good luck and hope you do feel better and make the best decision for YOU.

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Stimulant Therapy or ECT. Life is passing me by

Stimulant Therapy or ECT. Life is passing me by

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