Lithium facts

[Atlantis]

Woody,
I'm sorry to hear that Ritalin is not an option to you because of blood pressure problems, especially if you find the medication helpful

Wellbutrin really quiets my mind...not sure if you have tried Wellbutrin for that purpose before...I do not use that med as an a/d, I use it to help with the constant chatter in my brain, and it really slows down my thinking...I know everyone is different, i just thought I would mention it

I have been on Concerta also, and although it relieved some of my symptoms...Wellbutrin totally quiets my mind.

Now, if I can just take either of those meds for longer than 6 months without going manic I would be happy...That is the trouble...I hope now with the Lamictal and Lithium, once I am stabilized for another period of time, my pdoc said we can up my wellbutrin to 300 instead of my current 150 mg...

That might be just the right cocktail for me, fingers crossed..

[paul m]

Hello Karen. Duely noted, my fingers are crossed, good luck. Take Care. paul m P.S. What were we talking about, I forgot

[Atlantis]

Hi Paul,
I asked my pdoc about the difference between once daily dosing versus divided daily doing for maintenance treatment and he said that if the entire Lithium dose is taken before bedtime then the patient sleeps through the worst of the side effects. I have not researched this statement. But I did respond to him that if I am sleeping through the worst of my side effects, then I am probably sleeping through hours of high lithium levels as well, and he agreed.

He also said that once daily dosing would give the "drop off" curve towards the evening, which makes sense as the medicine starts its decline from the body's system. So, I said well, I do not want it to decline in the evening, the evenings are the hardest part of the day for me, mood wise.

But having said all that, it is much easier to remember to take the medication in one dose
Is that why you liked the extended release version so much? You had the convenience of once daily dosing and the all day "constant" levels of lithium that the divided doses provide with the slow release action of the extended release pill.
I say "constant" because we all know the levels are never really constant, they do fluctuate somewhat, even with SR meds.

[Woody]

We did look at Wellbutrin at one point, but for what ever reason at the time it was decided that it was not a good choice.

Fingers crossed here too

[gtchamp]

Very interesting conversation. I was initially told to take my Lithium 3X a day (300mg each time). However, I was feeling really nauseated and having trouble eating. So, on the advice of my pdoc's nurse, I was told to take 2 pills in the PM and 1 in the AM. I have found that this helps. I take them 12 hours apart. I wasn't told to do this but I just think it is better to have them somewhat scheduled. The only thing I am finding is that I am tired in the morning and I am not sure if this is because of the larger PM dose or not. Either way, I am happy.

Karen...I know what it is like to have the constant chatter. I was on sleeping meds to help with it but really wanted to get off it. I finally was able to do that but I listen to a sleep inducement tape every night and if I do get that chatter, I have a pad of paper beside my bed and I write my thoughts down. For me, it seems that when I write it down, it goes away. I don't know why, but it does. Then in the morning, I take care of the things that need to be addressed. Don't know if that helps but just thought I would share in case you are interested. I hope things quieten down for you.

Hi to everyone else. Very interesting posts. I am enjoying the reading.

[paul m]

Hello Karen. Even Duralith and Lithium SR are reccomended by the drug company to be taken in two doses. That's how I always took it.

Duraltih really helped with the side effects and a little with my moods. .For me, the main reason I take it multiple times a day is too help with the side effects. The difference between duralith and lithium carbonate is so great some patients have quit taking lithium when the duralith etc were discontinued. It's like taking a different med.

I have never read anything that suggests that lithium should only be taken once per day. The sole exception to that are the few who can by with only low dose maintance amount. (and the forgetfull) Take Care. paul m

P.S. It's great that you talk with your doc. I would have got better sooner if I had not blindly followed my docs advice. Follow the docs advice, yes, but I should have asked more questions sooner.

Hello Tracey. Good idea about the pen and paper, thx. In regards to lithium, I find it best to eat first and then take lithium immediately afterwards. Take Care. paul m

[Atlantis]

Hi Tracey, thanks for sharing the idea about the pen and paper, i can see that being very helpful

I read an article, I will try and find it and post it here, about hypomania and constant thinking...I had always assummed the constant thinking was a result of my ADD...And it may be, but the article seemed so familiar when I was reading it, I was thinking, maybe I am going around most of the time in a hypomanic state.

Mentioned this to my pdoc too, along with the fact that, if the above were true, it would explain why i like to gamble even when I am not totally manic, as of course even in hypomania our impulsiveness is generally through the roof.

Anyways, I guess some of the symptoms of ADD and bipolar overlap and because they can be comorbid, it can be difficult at times to know which symptom belongs to which disorder, and this can slow down getting on the right medication to get better.

BTW, I have not gambled in ages, nor do I think about it like i used too...I'll try and post some studies about lithium and gambling, there are lots out there, and there has been alot of success!!! Makes sense, if the person is no longer manic or hypomanic, they are less impulsive and therefore will not participate in as many impulsive activities.

[Woody]

I have had to use examples from ADHD to explain to my Pdoc the chaos between the ears otherwise he just looked at me like a sick deer in headlights. It was not 100% accurate but got the message across.

The Pen and Paper is very powerful tool. It is good for several things like rushing though or anger or ruminating. I'm probably missing a few

[paul m]

Hello All. It can be really difficult to tell various symptoms of mental illnesses apart. I have no problem with ADHD etc unless I have even the slighest mood swing(up or down). This does not have to be a large swing at all for me to have a lot of ADHD symptoms. It often takes carefull anyalisis by a shrink to tell the two apart.

Unfortunately the wrong treatment can make everything worse. (ok so I'm stating the obvious now Karen has already mentioned this) Take Care. paul m

Hello Karen. I agree that some of us have problems with sort of a low grade hypomanic state(or depression) that constantly influences our thinking. I also think that part of it is simply that after years of thinking that it's ok to gamble, spend, drink, etc at times, it becomes ingrained into our thought patterns. Thoughts and habits that develop over a long time period are often very hard to change. Even without mood swings.

Congrats on not gambling. It must have been tough at times even with lithium. Take Care. paul m

Hello Woody. I like your example . Take Care. paul m

[Atlantis]

Hi,
Here are some links to studies about lithium and pathological gambling.
There are many studies using different types of mood stablizers to help with gambling, I'm just focussing on Lithium for this thread

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/162/1/137

This study notes, improvement in gambling severity was significantly correlated with improvement in mania ratings.

http://www.cnsspectrums.com/aspx/articledetail.aspx?articleid=263

Just double click where it says download to read the study.
This study is about a 30-year-old woman with severe pathological gambling and cyclothymia.

Well, that's all I have time for now. TTYL.

[Woody]

Interesting...

Currently, no existing medications have been approved by the US Food and Drug Administration for the treatment of pathological gambling.

Maybe the US Food and Drug Administration should listen to W5 as they had a piece not that long ago on how some medications cause gambling....

[Atlantis]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/04/2918013.htm

"Parkinson's medication 'causes ***, gambling addictions"

[gtchamp]

Hi guys. I have a question. Does anyone know if Lithium causes Restless Leg Syndrome? I think I have developed this condition since starting Lithium.

[Re-O]

Hi Gtchamp,

That's a good question. I know for myself, when I was first on lithium I thought it was that but my pdoc at the time said no. So, I went to a GP and he put me on muscle relaxers which only served to make me ill.

Then, since I was nagging, they decided to try vitamin E and it seemed to work. Now, I have "spider legs" (Strange musle movements, moving as they wish) but they don't seem to bother me very often.

However, I have looked a bit more into it and it seems lithium can be a cause or at least a factor in worsening restless leg syndrome.
Here's a link I found helpful http://www.lef.org/protocols/neurolo...yndrome_01.htm

[gtchamp]

Thanks for the information Re-O. Last night I took a sleeping pill and that help significantly. However, this can't be a long term solution so I need to find something. My pdoc's nurse said I am lacking calcium, magnesium and Vit D. Maybe I will try that at least until I see my GP.

Thanks again. Although I don't wish RLS on anyone, I felt somewhat relieved to know someone else had it. Hope yours gets better.